Joel Osteen’s Theology
But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.Jude 17-23
This made me wonder, who will save the likes of Joel Osteen and Jermiah Wright? Who will snatch them from the fire? Though they claim Christ, “they are from our world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them” (1 John 4:5). Though they claim him, they deny the whole of him. One man loves the world and money, just as Demas did, who turned from the faith (1 John 1:15, 2 Timothy 4:10, Matthew 6:24). The other man hates his brother, and thus displays he has not the love of God (1 John 2:9).
Julie
5:52 pm on June 19, 2006
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I found your site through Troy’s site—Lately I’ve been debating w/ myself on what I believe concerning Calvinism—My first inclination was, as you alluded some people do, to dismiss the theories b/c I couldn’t see how they match up w/ my concept of God being a loving God.
But I’m gradually starting to realize how much I try to conceptualize God through my human-centered perspective, rather than trying to step outside of myself and get at least a glimpse of the God He truly is—A God who is self-sufficient—all-loving, yet completely holy—creator of the universe with His purpose, in and of Himself…
One of the questions I’m still wrestling with deals with sin —Maybe you have some thoughts I haven’t considered yet? If God is the source of all things, if in Him all things were made that have been made, then did God create sin? Maybe sin can be described as the absence of God—But if so, did God create Satan with a fallen nature? When did Satan go from being a beautifully-created being to the leader of a rebellion again God? Did all the angels originally have the capacity to fall away, or just the third that did? I’m struggling w/ fitting this into the view that God is completely holy and sovereign, and that these angels were created. Did God simply remove his presence from within those angels, allowing a ‘sin-nature’ to take over? How did sin come into everything? Still wondering…
troy
12:11 am on June 20, 2006
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Excellent questions, Julie! I have wrestled with the same ones. I’m am not sure I understand it,and I know that I am not comfortable yet with what I think I understand. I do know that God cannot do anything that is contrary to His nature. Believers do not naturally have difficulty with this statement. This statement does, however, seem to contradict the allowance (creation) of the original sin. Why create something that will inevitably fall? Why enable a creature to remove itself from the presence of its Creator? God’s purpose for everything is to bring glory to Himself. Romans 9 holds the key, specifically verses 22-24. It is difficult to understand, but that is just one more reason why Paul refers to the Gospel as a mystery.
Ryan
2:00 pm on June 21, 2006
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Great questions, Julie. I’ve read several things in the past by R. C. Sproul, David Jeremiah and others that try to delve into these exact questions. I don’t know that I will do them justice, but I’ll try. Sin is an action that corresponds with an evil, or wicked, deed, so sin itself is essentially a classification of certain works, much as “good deeds” or “righteousness” would be considered the other set of works. Evil is the opposite of good, and is likewise a descriptor; however, you can’t have one without the other. The one defines the other. As God created everything, He said, “It is good.” By doing so, he defined good and, by doing so, allowed for evil.
You can also think of evil as the absence of good. It’s similar to darkness and light in this respect. Light is something. It is made up of photons which can be counted by various measures. Darkness, on the other hand, is the absence of light. You would identify darkness as a place where light is not as prevalent as in another spot. Likewise, you would find evil where good is not present. Another example is hot and cold. You can measure the heat of something, as heat is a term used for the quickening of particles as a result of energy release. Cold is simply the absence of heat. We use these opposite terms as a means of contrasting from what is present. It is much easier to say something is hot or cold rather than saying that something is very hot or not very hot. Both statements mean the same thing, but cold is a much better descriptor for the absence of heat.
As to the fall of Satan, we are not really told much in scripture. We know that he wants to take God’s place and be worshipped, that he rebelled against God. We know that no atonement was made for the angels, presumably because they have always been in his presence, much moreso than we have ever been. God gave both angels and men free will to choose what they would. Now, certainly, God could have saved all of his creation any grief by making us all robots; however, He chose not to do so for his own “good pleasure” (Ephesians 1). Why? I don’t know, but God chose to do it. Our free will cannot supercede God’s free will, however, so to say that man makes his own decisions and is able to usurp God’s sovereignty is not highly probable. Sproul said in Holiness of God that God displays his holiness through demonstrating his justice to those who do not choose him and his non-justice, or mercy, on those to whom He chooses. Scripture seems to indicate that all those who have ever pursued God were chosen by him, from the prophets to Peter and currently to all believers (John 6:44, et. al.). God alone knows the answer to the question of why. A good resource for learning more is Dr. David Jeremiah’s Angels book (I think that’s the title).
I hope that helps and is not confusing. Thanks for posting!
Greg Leach
5:49 pm on July 3, 2006
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I think it is also important to realize that sin in the Greek is “missing the mark”. God established his covenant with Adam with the one rule of obedience being to not eat from the tree of knowledge. If they were to fail this then they would die. Once Adam partook of the fruit the fall occurs and God comes into the garden and starts doling out punishment. There are some who have spoken of the death that God promised was spiritual in nature and not physical (thus our need of a savior who brings spiritual rebirth). Ryan has already addressed the whole automation thing, for if we did not have the ability to disobey then our obedience would be trivial. A passage comes to mind of how by our obedience we will show Him our love.
As far as Satan goes, again we do not have a lot of information, but if they were already aware of good and evil as alluded to in Genesis when God kicks them out of the Garden then they were excercising their free will to disobey and thus were cast out of the heavens.
In all of these things God is holy and sovereign. Lack of action does not always indicate inability. I am just thankful that God’s love transcends our innate wickedness and that He saw fit to send a perfect sacrifice to die for us so that our relationship might be renewed and that we can come into His holy presence and walk with Him just as Adam did prior to the Fall.